This is about HOW and WHY I went from a belief in a Pre-Trib Rapture to what you call a Pre-Wrath rapture. It is not very different. It is not Post-Trib. It is not Mid-Trib. It is just exactly what the Bible says. And if you are not scared off by me admitting it, I would like to share how I came to this belief and give Scriptures that show why.
I come from a pre-trib rapture church. I have spent many years with my nose in every commentary and going to every service about prophecy. I got so mad at my best friend when she told me she didn’t believe in the rapture. I felt like I just couldn’t relate to her anymore! My bad.
I have been praying for her for 4 years now, that she would believe in the pre-trib rapture. I mean the Word CLEARLY says that we are not appointed to the wrath of God.
About a year ago, I was going through a class on Revelation (pre-trib) with an affiliate church. And in chapter 5 I began to see that the Seal’s are very similar to the New World Order agenda. And I began to wonder if they are not God’s judgment, but God’s allowance. He unseals these things, so He allows the world to have their way–to have their Anti-Christ, to have their wars, pestilence (bio-weapons), famines (Monsanto), martyrdom (depopulation), and earthquakes (Haarp), etc.
Then recently I noticed that 2 Thessalonians 2 says that concerning the gathering (rapture) that it cannot happen until the man of sin is revealed.
“Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (1-4)
We have a timing issue there. And my pre-trib teachers and commentators are great men of God–they have reasons why they can explain that this is not saying what it says. They are smarter than I am. But I am simply reading it. The gathering, cannot happen until the man of sin is revealed and sits in the temple saying he is god. That IS literally what it says. I used to teach that it didn’t mean this. I believed it too.
Then I noticed that if you just READ Matthew 24 without opening a commentary, you can NOT come to a pre-trib rapture view. The disciples ask Jesus what is the sign of His Coming an the end of the Age (world). Jesus begins to talk about earthquakes, wars, deception(False Messiah), famines, pestilence, martyrdom, and COSMIC SIGNS.
I think the clincher for me was noticing that EACH thing Jesus mentions in Matthew 24–correlates to EACH Seal that He opens in heaven. Check it out!
My pre-trib brothers say that the church is raptured before the main events of Matthew 24. That would be wonderful. But I have two reasons why I personally disagree.
1.) He was talking to HIS followers. He told them what to expect. The early church expected to see these things before the gathering up. (proof 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).
2.) He said to them, “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.” Or you will be hated for “MY NAME’S SAKE”–while the pre-trib believers say this applies only to the Jews. The Jews are hated by the enemy, but not for Jesus’ Name.
3.) When Jesus rose from the dead, He did not change what He told them–now that they had entered the “church age.” When they even asked HIM in Acts 1 if it was time. So they were still to expect to go through these things.
Now, that I have explained why I think we will go through the 7 seals. let me explain why I think we will be taken before God pours out His wrath.
We can see that God is going to pour out His Spirit on His people until the Sun turns to darkness, the moon turns to blood, the stars fall from the sky, and the heavens recede like a scroll. That happens during the sixth seal. And at the end of Matthew 24.
Let’s look at Matthew’s account of this:
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d]31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Now let’s look at Revelation six’s account of this:
12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
So we have two places that talk about the same cosmic signs (sun, moon, stars). But we have another one in Acts 2, which is actually Peter quoting from Joel. So it is repeated in Scripture. Mentioned twice–it is significant. Let’s look:
16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’[c]
Notice that it says that God’s Spirit will be poured out on His people, even up to the cosmic signs of Matthew 24, and Revelation 6.
But, pre-trib believers will here point out that people who are left behind after the rapture will repent and choose Jesus. However, when I look at Revelation I see a verse that says,
20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk.21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts. (Revelation 9:21)
9 They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him. (Revelation 16:9).
Revelation says that the unsaved will not be repenting, but that they will refuse Him still.
Another thing I want to point out is that Jesus teaches in Matthew 24 that after/during the cosmic signs, He will be seen in the heavens and He will gather His elect from the four corners of earth into heaven.
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24)
15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free,hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?” (Revelation 6)
Revelation shows this too. After the cosmic signs of Chapter 6 we see in Chapter 7 a great multitude that no one can number. Look at what it says,
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
This is a verse used by my brothers and sisters that believe in a pre-trib rapture to justify the idea that people will get saved in the Tribulation; because they believe that the church is already in heaven in chapter 5.
But indulge me. Let me show you something. And make of it what you will.
In chapter 6 we see people in heaven, but they do not have bodies. John says,
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
When John sees them, he only sees their souls. So the gathering (in my opinion) could not have happened, or else they would have their bodies too. The rapture and the resurrection happen at the same time.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)
So they have no bodies in Chapter 6 but in Chapter 7 we see bodies–a great multitude, clothed, waving palm branches–coming out of the great tribulation.
So the timing as far as I believe is clear. After the Anti-Christ sits in the Temple of God saying he is god (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4). And after we see the cosmic signs of the sixth seal (Matthew 24 and Revelation 6).
BUT BEFORE the WRATH OF GOD
1.) Jesus mentions EVERY seal that He will open. But He does not tell His disciples to expect ANY of the Trumpet or Bowl Judgements. Why? Because they did not need to expect them. They would be gone. No seas turning to blood, no demonic locust/scorpion/monsters, no fiery hail. They would be gone.
2.) Daniel talks about the 70th week of the the Lord. We believe that it stands for a 7 year period known as the Tribulation. And a lot of people believe we will be taken right before those seven years start. But if what I am saying is true, then the 7 years is not filled with the Wrath of God alone, but the wrath of Satan.
- The First Part of the Tribulation=Satan takes his wrath out on the church (martyrdom) and the Anti-Christ is glorified.
- The Second Part of the Tribulation=God takes out His wrath on an evil world (bowls and trumpet judgments) and JESUS is glorified. From the moment we are drawn up to heaven, the world sees Him and they KNOW their time has come. In Revelation 6 after the cosmic signs it says,
15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free,hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
3.) So if the 70th Week of Daniel represents One Week of Years, or 7 years. Why does the Bible repeatedly refer to the time of God’s Wrath as “The Day of the Lord?” All through the Old and New Testaments, God’s Wrath is referred to as a Day and not a Week.
For the day of the LORD of hosts [Shall come] upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up–And it shall be brought low– (Isaiah 2:20)
Wail, for the day of the LORD [is] at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty. (Isaiah 13:6)
For this [is] the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, A day of vengeance, That He may avenge Himself on His adversaries.The sword shall devour; It shall be satiated and made drunk with their blood; For the Lord GOD of hosts has a sacrifice In the north country by the River Euphrates. (Jeremiah 46:10).
For the day [is] near, Even the day of the LORD [is] near; It will be a day of clouds, the time of the Gentiles. (Ezekiel 30:3)
Alas for the day! For the day of the LORD [is] at hand; It shall come as destruction from the Almighty. (Joel 1:15)
Woe to you who desire the day of the LORD! For what good [is]the day of the LORD to you? It [will be] darkness, and not light. (Amos 5:18)
For the day of the LORD upon all the nations [is] near; As you have done, it shall be done to you; Your reprisal shall return upon your own head. (Obadiah 1:15)
The great day of the LORD [is] near; [It is] near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out. (Zephaniah 1:14)
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. (Zechariah 14:1)
For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. (1 Thessalonians 5:2)
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)
So the DAY of the Lord, is probably at least about a year long (give or take). We know that the 5th trumpet will last 5 months. But all these catastrophes could happen in a rather short amount of time.
But we don’t know exactly when it will start. It could happen any time after the abomination of desolation. Like a thief in the night.
And what is interesting is that Lord is not waiting for a specific day or date to pour out His wrath, but for a specific number–of martyrs.
“How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe,and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e]were killed just as they had been. (Revelation 6).
How precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of these saints. This is what our faith was founded in–martyrs. All of the disciples were persecuted. And we think in the last days we will escape persecution. Look around the world, the church is persecuted.
Here is another chart that is great to sum up what I have been talking about. You see all the seals take place, the rapture, the wrath, etc.
If you want to see it bigger click here.
Then afterward He pours out all his wrath during the Day of the Lord, then the Lord will come and fight the battle of Armageddon and end it all.
I have heard some teach that the Trumpet judgments and the bowl judgments may happen concurrently, which would explain chapter 11 with the winepress. But I digress. That is not what I am here to talk about.
I hope and pray I didn’t confuse you. If you think I am crazy or weird or a heretic because I know longer believe in a pre-trib rapture–I understand. I felt really weird around my best friend for a long time. In fact, we couldn’t even talk about it because I would get so mad! I get it. She had nothing to do with me switching either.
I just read the Word and it fit.
Without a commentary, just the word, and it made sense.
I am not a scholar or a theologian.
I go to a pre-trib church.
I don’t talk about this with them : )
I respect the leadership and don’t want to cause problems.
But this is my blog, and I don’t share it with my church, so I will be honest.
This is what I see when I look at the Bible.
I am not Pre-Trib.
I am not a Preterist.
I am actually very concerned over the preterist view.
In my [opinion] I believe you have to literally tear pages out of your Bible to hold to a Preterist view. Nero never sat in the temple, he never went to Jerusalem, Israel is not Babylon, the church did not replace her. There is a One World Government coming, it’s leader is not a good peace loving guy. etc. I am concerned for those of my brothers and sisters that are caught up in this view. I love them. But it really concerns me.
I am not “Mid-Trib” or “Post-Trib.”
I am “Pre-Wrath.”
I think this belief does a very good job taking the truth that each camp has clung to.
We are not appointed to wrath,
We will be taken after the anti-Christ is revealed,
With the sound of the trumpet OF God (NOT the trumpet of an angel in Revelation 11),
We will go through hard times.
We may be martyred.
But even so, I would rather stand on what the Word plainly says, than try to have someone else tell me it means something different.
This just fits.
Every Scripture fits together like a puzzle you don’t have to force the pieces into.
When I started putting the pieces together I called my friend and told her that I saw in the word that we will no longer have a pre-trib rapture, and I told her why. She could hardly believe it, after how long I tried to convince her of the former belief. I love how the Lord works. I am so happy that I didn’t change my mind because of some “person’s” opinion, but just because of what I saw in the Word.
And most of my friends still believe in Pre-Trib, so I don’t have much fellowship on this topic. But I love them. My prayer is that their faith would be so strong, that they will be ready for persecution and trouble. Because it could start very soon. I am also afraid that the churches have taught that we will be gone before the anti-Christ and the mark and all that, and many believers will either be deceived–“This is not the anti-Christ. This is not the mark. We will be raptured first.” OR be heartbroken, “He said He would come and rapture us and He didn’t.” If pre-wrath is true, may God open our eyes so we will be ready and not overcome. Jesus Himself told us to expect those things. I think it helps to be expecting, to be praying that we can be ready, and endure all that.
Now if I haven’t bored you to death by now, and you want to learn more about Pre-Wrath here is a video that I found that sums it up, probably WAY better than I could. I should have just posted the video and saved an hour of typing. LOL.